Julie Gonzales

Interviewer Bob Hult

August 12, 2004

Okay, this is Bob Hult and today is Thursday, August 12, 2004. I’m in the Bailey Library with Julie Gonzales and we’re going to be talking about her experiences in Shawnee, Park County, Colorado. So, Julie, when and where were you born?

I was born in Portland, Colorado, February 16, 1925.

1925. You said you were here for about two years?

Yeah, and then my father went to Utah to work in the coal mines.

Where abouts in Utah?

Helper and Price, Utah. They’re small towns about 114 miles north or south of Salt Lake. Of course, I lived in Salt Lake most of my married years until we came down here.

Okay, so how long were you in Utah, roughly?

Well, since I was two till I was about my teens. My youngest was in the 1^st grade, my oldest was in the 6^th, so I can’t remember the dates.

So, when you came back about 1957, you’ve been in Park County?

Yeah.

Okay, good. You were born here in Colorado. When did your parents come to Colorado?

My parents came two years before I was born.

Okay, so they had been here in Colorado quite some time.

Yes, they had been in Portland because my father worked in the cement works there.

Okay, that makes sense. So, okay, so you came back. Did you move directly into Shawnee then?

Yes.

What brought you into the Shawnee area specifically?

Well, my husband was sent from Utah to work at the Roberts Tunnel and that’s what brought me here.

At that point had the Roberts just begun?

They were going, I’d say two years or so. Maybe more. I’m not sure of the years there, though, so don’t quote me on that. My memory is either senior or golden!

Now, what was his position with the Roberts Tunnel? What was he asked to do?

Well, he was their dynamite specialist.

Oh! Had he learned that?

He’d been in the Army.

Oh! So he learned to work with explosives in the Army? Okay, so he had some experience with that?

Yes,

Now, did he go into the tunnel and then work in the tunnel itself?

Yes.

Wow. He must have had some interesting experiences working in that.

Yes, he did. Yeah. I don’t know of many right now, you know, I’d have to look and everything. But he worked there faithfully until they sent him to the Eisenhower Tunnel. That’s where he died, was inside the tunnel.

At the Eisenhower Tunnel?

Yes.

As far as the Roberts Tunnel, how many years did he work in there?

Well, gee, . . .

Roughly. Was it two years or five years or . . .

I’d say, I just don’t remember. I can’t remember the years.

So he went to the tunnel each day? The Roberts Tunnel?

Yeah. He’d get a little motel room and stay there during the week and come home weekends. Here.

Okay, it wasn’t far from Shawnee to the tunnel itself.

No, but sometimes it was hard when you were working late and got off late, you know, by the time you drive at night and it makes it hard.

Was 285 a paved road at that time? Do you remember?

Yes. When I came, the road was just finishing. So, I don’t remember what year that was, either.

What company was it that he was working for that sent him here?

That sent him here?

Yes. Was it the Burland Company or was it . . .

I don’t remember that one, either.

Okay.

He worked in Murray, Utah.

Oh, okay, before he came here.

Yeah. He was a white collar worker then. He had to use his experiences in the Army until he got this good deal, you know. Of course, money always, you know . . .

Well, that’s an incentive. So, he actually went to the mine. Did he actually place charges then?

Yes.

So that was his responsibility? To actually place the charge?

Yes. And he had to train some. Most people were college students that come in and work there sometimes during the summer. That was how they made money to go to school.

Okay, I guess they paid pretty well to do that kind of work.

Yeah, oh, yeah.

It was also pretty dangerous work, too.

Oh, yeah!

I interviewed a gentleman in Bailey who worked in the tunnel itself and he had some really interesting experiences.

Who was that?

I’d have to think about it but I think it was Warren Peterson.

Warren Peterson?

Yeah. He lives actually right just down the street from the Post Office in Bailey.

Warren Peterson?

Yeah, I’m not certain if that’s his name but I don’t have my whole file here.

Another one that would know a lot about the tunnel who worked there, Gordon, with my husband. He’s gone but she is Jane Evig. She lives in a trailer up past the Post Office and on up.

Okay. There are a number of folks that are still in that area that go back to that era and worked in the tunnel.

Yeah. Jane, her name is Jane Evig.

Good, good.

So, there’s one that could give you more information, I think, than I can. I never bothered. I was too busy doing . . .

You were raising kids at that point.

Well, yeah, then I did a lot of student teaching because that’s what I got my degree in. And I did a lot of student teaching. So, I was busy.

Now, did you work in the schools or did you do homeschooling?

No, no. I did the school in Platte Canyon.

You worked with the school? With your husband working at the tunnel, was that, did they work 24 hour shifts?

Yeah, he worked three shifts. Two weeks days, two weeks afternoons and two weeks graveyard. That’s the reason he’d stay away from home until he’d get home on the weekends. Because of that.

So, they were always working on that?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They worked that tunnel because (inaudible).

You weren’t sure how many years he worked in that tunnel?

No.

Was he there when, though, when they completed the tunnel?

He was there when they completed the tunnel and that’s when the, he went to the Eisenhower Tunnel.

Okay. Do you recall what year that was by chance? No? Now, what was he doing at the Eisenhower Tunnel? The same thing?

No. I don’t know what he was doing there but he was working there.

Now there he would probably have to stay at the tunnel because that’s a pretty good distance from here.

That’s the one I’m talking about with the distance. This he could drive. We lived at the corner there as you’re leaving Shawnee. Where Jim Hartford lives, in that area. We could get up there.

Okay. So, now what happened at the Eisenhower Tunnel?

He had a heart attack inside the tunnel and since it was, they didn’t have a way of getting out fast enough to get help from a doctor or a doctor in there because working in a tunnel is not . . .

Oh, it’s a nasty environment.

So, the doctor didn’t make it in time. He had a massive heart attack.

I’ll be darned. You don’t recall what year that was?

April, 1968. A few weeks later the Denver Post wrote an article on the Eisenhower Tunnel. I still have the article. He was mentioned in that about the first death being in the Eisenhower Tunnel was Pete Gonzales from here.

’68? That’s the, it was probably relatively early in the construction of that tunnel?

Yeah, it was still young.

They hadn’t finished it?

No, they hadn’t finished it.

Now, there were two bores. There was an east . . .

East portal and the west portal.

There were two actual bores. I guess they did one and completed one and then later on, sometime later, they completed the second one. This was on the first one?

It was on the second one. I’m not sure. I’d have to look at the article. When I find that article, I’ll send it to you through the mail just so you’ll have it. What’s your address? (Tape is interrupted.)

Well, let’s go back to your experiences in Shawnee. You moved there in 1957. What was Shawnee like at that time?

Oh, there weren’t too many people there. And mostly were summer people that came, you know. In fact, I moved from the big house that was owned by a very noted attorney. I’m trying to think of his name. The Forest Service bought all of that property from us, from me. What was his name? He was very good to me. I can’t think of it. That’s the trouble. There’s just things that I can’t remember.

Sure. That was a long time ago.

Yeah. Then they come back to me.

I have the same problem.  Okay, so when you first moved, did you know where you were going to move to? Why Shawnee? Was Shawnee the closest town to the tunnel?

Yeah.

So, that’s what really made your decision?

Well, see, they had what is now that big fishing lake there before you get to Grant. What is the name of it? Anyway, it used to be called Singleton Lodge.

Oh! Silvertip Lodge?

Yeah, that’s what it is now. But it used to be Singleton Lodge.

Singleton?

Yeah. My husband got a room there.

That’s when you first moved there?

That’s when he came.

Okay, so he came first?

Yeah, he came first. He was there a year before I came. The reason I couldn’t leave there because I had the children and I was teaching school in Utah so I couldn’t leave. But the minute June came, he came and he picked us up and brought us down and we waited in the little cabin there at Singleton Lodge till we got our house that the company had for us.

Oh, the company provided a house for you?

Well, we had to pay the rent.

Okay, so you had a rental house in Shawnee?

Yeah.

Okay, so in the meantime, well, the Singleton, or now Silvertip Lodge, has those cabins arranged around that lake.

The one I lived in was on the very corner.

Okay, so it goes back to the ‘50s?

Yeah.

That’s interesting. It was kind of nice to walk out your front door and go fishing.

Yeah! Anyway, we stayed there for a little while till the house was ready for us.

Okay. And then you moved into the rental house and you stayed there for the time that you were in Shawnee?

Yeah. The house that we moved into belonged to the supervisor and, I don’t know his name, of the Roberts Tunnel who ran it and his wife was one of the survivor’s of the Death March in Bataan.

Oh, really?

Yes.

His wife was a survivor? I didn’t know there were women on that.

Yeah, she was the nurse.

Oh, and she had been part of that then? And she survived?

Yeah. It was very sad. She never talked to anyone about it, really. She did to us, you know, because we were friends but it’s kind of cringing to even know what she went through. You know, she sort of kept to herself a lot. But, anyway, that was one thing that we found of interest, you know. Of course, I don’t know where she would be now or if she’s gone, if she’s died, or what. Or him, you know. Again, like I said, I’d have to look up his files of all his people he worked with.

Boy, it’s interesting the people. I had no idea there were women in that march.

Yes. She was one of the survivor’s of the Bataan march.

Well, when you moved there, were there other stores? Was there more of Shawnee or less than Shawnee is today?

Just what you see in Shawnee. At that time, it was, (inaudible) sell ice cream, a confectionary, they call it. I believe the name of the people was Wilsons because I had them in school. They lived upstairs. That’s before Roy got it. Roy got it later in the ‘70s. He bought it.

That’s the general store today?

Yeah. Well, it’s not a store anymore. A lot of junk and stuff that . . . But, anyway, he bought it. It’s where everybody gathers.

Just like the cabin in Bailey. Knotty Pine. That’s another gathering spot just like that, sounds like.

Yeah.

Now, you taught during this period of time. Where was this school that you taught?

Platte Canyon. There was only one school. The tunnel that built that.

The company?

Yeah, the company had it built or something.

Where it is now?

Yeah, but it was only one building. 1^st through 12^th grade.

What grade did you teach?

Well, whatever I had to go to.

So, they would assign you to a particular grade level?

Yeah. I had, mostly I did the elementary and some high school. I taught Spanish, too.

Sure. You’d be perfect for that. How many children did you have in a typical class at that time?

Oh, you had 20-30 depending. The tunnel people had a lot of children. That was one of the reasons why they built it, so that the children . .

That many children at each class level?

Yeah, and then the lady at Singleton Lodge, she’d be gone during the day and she let me use the building and I taught Kindergarten. We didn’t have a Kindergarten and I taught Kindergarten in the lodge. 9-12 for the first class and 12-3 for the second class.

I’ll be darned. You were very busy. Now, you had children at that time of your own?

Yes.

So, did you have them with you or how did you manage that?

Well, when going to school, I had them with me because I’d take the bus with Mr. Joel LaRue, who used to be the bus driver.

And he would pick you up at Singleton Lodge?

He’d pick me up at Singleton. Well, at my house where I lived when I go to the school. But while I was at Singleton we lived in the cabin there so I could just walk from the cabin to the building. And the parents brought their children.

Pretty good sized class at that point. And, so, you always had your ride. When you were teaching at the school, then, you had your children with you in the school at the same time?

Oh, yes, they all went to school at Platte Canyon. One of them went all 12 years of his life in Platte Canyon.

What did the kids do for fun in that period, in Shawnee?

Well, they went fishing. My children loved hunting and they played baseball. Sometimes flag-football. The girls did play volleyball. There wasn’t too much going on. In fact, Winnie and I used to go to the Community Center and we’d have dances and we were the counselors and all and she I saw to it that those kids stayed inside the building, you know. Once you went outside the building, that meant you needed to go home.

It was the end of the evening?

Yeah. We didn’t want to be responsible. And Winnie is a very outgoing, wonderful person.

Oh, absolutely. She just bubbles over. She’s amazing.

She just bubbles. She’s amazing. She and I really enjoyed. We’d go to football games with the girls on the bus as far as oh, I think, we went to Colorado Springs and things like that.

So, there was bus service up here?

Yeah.

It doesn’t exist now. There was at that time. So, that’s how people got around at that time because the train was gone. That was out in the ‘30s so people either had a car or they had a bus as a way to get around.

And they made use of the buses, too, because, you know, it was, the kids didn’t own cars like they do now. The only ones you saw in front of the school were the teachers and sometimes they rode the bus.

The school had buses to pick up students to take them to and from school, right?

Yeah.

Okay. Now, were you here when Id-Ra-Ha-Je was the school? Was it an elementary school?

Yes. In fact, I went up there, I’m trying to think of the lady’s name that I, she taught music and I did some substitute teaching there because something was going on at the school. We couldn’t use it so we used that. There was an old building there. (Inaudible.)

Did you go into Denver very often during the late ‘50s and early ‘60s?

Just for grocery shopping.

Grocery shopping? So there were no other grocery shops?

Well, we had Mason’s but the (inaudible) was because we’d go to town to buy shoes for the kids, you know, do the things. The lady would go along (inaudible) or something.

Where was Mason’s?

Mason’s, she lives in Shawnee. There’s another one you could get, Freda Mason. She lives right in Shawnee. They had the store and then they sold to whomever has it now

Freda Mason?

Yes. Freda Mason and Howard. He died some years ago.

They had a store in Shawnee?

Yeah.

It was a general store?

No, not in Shawnee. The Masons’, the store is now the Bailey Country Store.

Oh, okay, so they owned it at that time?

Yeah, they owned it when the tunnel was going on , they owned it.

I imagine that was probably a booming store?

It was very busy. The only place, you know. The one in Conifer was a small store and didn’t have Safeway. Nothing like that existed when I came.  Nothing like this. Everything was nice land and  . . .

Progress, right?

But, anyway, that’s the way it is.

That’s very true. So, Shawnee was pretty small at that point in time. The general store was there. The Post Office was there? In the general store?

Yes. There was a little general store. The building next to the store, you’ll see a building, I think it’s blue, and it belongs to Ruth Lamping. She owns it. She has another house further on down the road.

Oh, she’s really involved in that community?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. She, well, you know, they were many years back for them, you know.

Are she and Jim, are they related? Are they cousins? Ruth and Jim Lamping?

Yeah. They’re related. Cousins, I think. I think it’s cousins. I’m not sure. But they are full-blood related.

I know she mentioned it. I don’t recall exactly what the relationship is but, yeah, obviously they are.

Did you know Ruth?

I called her on the phone. She was the one that gave me Jim’s phone number. And I interviewed Jim. Okay, so, was there any other commercial businesses in Shawnee at that time when you first came to Shawnee?

Well, no, when I first came, just the store that I know of and the Knotty Pine that was run by . . . anyway, they sold it to Winnie Days’ father.

Yep, and then they had a restaurant, a café where the service station is now.

Yeah, and anyway, they sold it to the people. The Petersons that have it now.

So, you would go into Bailey if you wanted groceries?

If you needed something, yeah.

And then if you really needed a lot of shopping you’d go into Denver?

Well, everybody would go do their shopping in town because then they’d go further, you know, like I said, for other needs.

Was there anything in Estes Park at that time?

Not that I remember but there could have been. Yes, there was a little store there and a laundromat because people used to go do their laundry down there until we got one up here, which came much, much, much later.

Were there any organized social activities in Shawnee or Bailey that you participated in?

Well, the miners once in awhile had a dance down at the Farmers’ Union.

Just south of Bailey?

Yes. Like I said, I was so busy trying to raise my family and . . .

And your husband was gone a lot.

Yeah.

That makes it tougher.

I was by myself. Then when he died, naturally, everything fell on me so it was not easy but we managed.

Well, you do what you gotta do.

Yeah, they’re all doing very well.

Are your kids all here?

Two in Golden, one in Iowa and one in California.

Oh, so they’re all over?

Yeah. 

The, what’s now the VFW Community Center in Shawnee, what was it originally?

It was the, it was called the Shawnee Community Center, the Platte Canyon Shawnee, the Platte Canyon Community Center in Shawnee. People got real upset because, you know, they called it the Shawnee Community Center and it was supposed to be Platte Canyon Community Center in Shawnee.

Was that built by people in Shawnee?

Yes, in fact, like I said, there’s an old-timer, he’s a codger, too, but I can’t think of his name. He lives past the (inaudible) down there.

Okay, because there was a flack, oh, maybe a year or two ago, where the county wanted to sell that building.

Yes. We all had big meetings that we didn’t want them to do that so, finally, the VFW took over and they’ve been doing marvelous work with it. They’ve done a lot of remodeling inside. Very nice.

Because I’ve gone to their breakfasts and, yeah, I guess the question was who actually owns the building and does the county have the right to sell it?

No, they didn’t, but they . . . they sure didn’t because it belonged to the Women’s Club. I belonged to the Women’s Club; in fact, I’m working on books of theirs right now.

So, it was actually the Women’s Club that actually owned . . . so it’s not actually a county owned building?

Well, that, see I don’t know that. But it was built by people in the community.

Do you know what time frame? Was it there when you moved in?

It was already there when I moved in.

So, it’s prior to 1957 then?

Oh, yeah.

Are there any other events you can recall when you moved into the Shawnee area? Was there anything that stuck out in your mind?

Oh, when we had our Bailey Days, it was a western thing, it was not what it is now, although they did have booths and all, but they had a round-up, you know, and horses and . . .

In Bailey?

Yeah. You know that area where that café on the corner? It’s has so many names that . . .

The Cutthroat Café?

No, not that one. Over on the other corner. It used to be called the Rustic Inn. Well, in that area they had an arena.

Really? Right off of 285?

I’ve got all my books of the Bailey Days and in there it has a lot of history.

I guess. So the Bailey Days goes back to the ‘60s or actually before that?

Probably before that. I’d have to look. But I could get some of that stuff for you and you could look through it yourself and see what you can see. As long as you hold it, don’t let no one have it.

No, no. In fact, you know, again this was something that the Historical Society will make decisions on whether they want to copy some materials because they asked that if there were materials that would be available to copy, they might want to be able to do that. To be able to document some of these kinds of things. So, we wouldn’t want to take anything original materials because there a couple of folks that have extensive collections of photographs and even artifacts and they’re very concerned about what will happen to those things.

Yeah, see this is the way I am, too.

Not a problem.  Were there . . . I mean when you first came into Park County did you notice any changes in the weather as to what it was like then as to what it is now?

It was nicer?

Nicer?

Yeah, we had our winters were winters, our summers were summers. You know what I mean? We didn’t have all of this change. So much change that is now.

Do you think it was colder in winter?

Oh, yes. Lots more snow. More ice.

More severe winters?

One year even the tunnel closed down for about three days because the snow was clear up to our doors and we couldn’t even get out.

Oh, sort of like the snow that fell a few years ago.

I think they made ice at Singleton Lodge, too. If I remember. From that pond. In fact, that’s where people got their, some of their drinking whatever. Years and years ago. Of course, you hear a lot.

Sure. Well, we know that there were those ice ponds that were in Shawnee and I was told that those were built and they would sell the ice in winter. They would haul it, either, I was actually told that there were, in some places, they were stored in the Bailey area at that Community Church. And then they would haul it to Denver as needed. They would store it in (inaudible).

In fact, we had a very charming lady who, her grandfather was the head of this ice company. And she came and spoke to the Historical Society and Jane would have a record of all of that, I think.

Jane Gilsinger?

Yes.

Okay, because you can see the ponds are still there. In fact, they just recently rebuilt one, it looks like. I’m not sure what the purpose of that was, if it’s just a holding pond or what but obviously someone spent a lot of money and they lined it and everything. Okay, so that was not being used as an ice pond when you came in ’57?

No.

Okay, so that was just . . . Now, you mentioned that you were familiar with the Fitzsimmons family?

Yeah.

Can you talk a little bit about that?  You knew Mr. Fitzsimmons?

Personally. Yes. He had many stories to tell us.  He was a ranger for, he was one of the first rangers, you know, forest rangers.

He lived in Shawnee?

Oh, yes. He had the big house, the big brown building there. Also next to it is the old hotel.

In Shawnee?

Yeah.

There was a hotel there?

Yeah. You know another man you should speak to is Bob Wonder. He lives up by me. Bob Wonder is Park County.

Really?

Yes.

Okay, we’re gonna contact these folks because I don’t know, again, if those names are on the list or not.

I can’t think of, yeah. But he comes, he’s one of the codgers at the Shawnee store. But, boy, talk about history! Now, there’s the man, his mother, Mrs. Wonder, taught school. I learned a lot from her.

Okay, so there are people that would have been in the county before you came in?

Yes. Living there when I came in they, well, Mr. Wonder lived here practically all his life and I think he had a place up there where Romer, the ex . . .

Oh, Bill Romer?

Yeah. Roy Romer.

Yes, exactly. Doesn’t sound right but okay.

(Inaudible)

Okay, so Mr. Fitzsimmons, what was he doing when you came into the county?

He was ranching. He had lots of cattle. Every year he had a community garden and it was big, big, big. And all of us went, did weeding and all that. We all gardened food from there, cabbage, potatoes, tomatoes, corn, whatever.

Now, this was a community garden? So everybody worked it?

Yeah. Everybody that, a lot of us had to work. And then a lot of, and then he did a lot of ranching and then, of course, he did his own (inaudible) as his daughter-in-law is doing now.

This is all in the valley?

Yeah.

Just opposite the road, just north, just on the other side of 285?

Yeah.

It’s a beautiful looking building.

Yeah. (Side A ends.)

(Inaudible) he gave the hotdogs and (inaudible) meat and we brought dishes that, there was a fish, the lake is there. Susan lives right across from there and . . .

So, it’s still in the family?

Yeah. She’s still, yeah. As far as I know it’s still in the family. And Martha has passed away and Jay has passed away.

This is the same Fitzsimmons that the medical center is named after?

No. You mean the school is named after. He gave that land to the middle school. Fitzsimmons Middle School. Yeah.

I think there’s some facilities that are named Fitzsimmons also. That’s a pretty well recognized name in this community.

Oh, yes. He was a wonderful man and he had kind of a joke. He had an old truck; he loved that truck like you wouldn’t believe. It took him everywhere. You’d wonder, is he going to make it this time or isn’t he? When he’d come up to pick me up to take me down to their house, because I didn’t drive, his wife would say, “You’re not going in that thing and taking her home and she doesn’t complain!” And he’d say, “Poor thing, she wouldn’t. She’d rather do that than walk!” It’s just little things like that. He was a very, he was one of the most wonderful people I’ve ever met and I loved listening to him, although, I wish that I’d had at that time something like this so I could record it. A lot of wonderful stuff that went on. But Susan could tell you more because she was married to his son-in-law.

Okay, interesting. Well, he sounds like he was the social center for a lot of activities.

Oh, he was. He did a lot. He did a lot for the community. And then he was a Commissioner.

County Commissioner?

Yes. He was a Commissioner and . . .

What were politics like at that time? Sometimes it appears, I’ve only been in the county a relatively short amount of time, but there appears some differences of opinion on the way things ought to be between here and South Park because there’s a different community here than in South Park. Was it the same way then?

Well, yeah, in a way. But it wasn’t anything like it is now. I think it’s different now. Changes.

Different in what way?

Well, people are different. You know what I mean? They’re not so down to earth like they used to be and understanding and that sort of thing, you know?

There appears to be a lot of conflict at times between the Commissioners and residents and, you know, this county has a reputation as a . . . they recalled three Commissioners at one point and this county has a terrible time passing any bond issues for just about anything.

Because, again . . .

Why do you think that is?

They just don’t understand. Like we, the library has been wanting one . . .

Right, and the schools.

We’ve lost it three times in a row so we just gave up because what’s the use?

I’m trying to understand why is it that people are so reluctant?

I don’t know. (Inaudible) some won’t even go and vote because they figure, lots of times they have meetings to express their views and that to the people and the people say what they feel and come right out and tell them how it is but the people in charge go ahead and do what they’re gonna do anyway to begin with so people say why bother to go to the meetings? That’s their attitude, some of them, you know.

Do you think it was that way when you first came into the county?

No, it was different. Like I said, I was too busy with other things. I wasn’t paying too much, you know, I listened to Mr. Fitzsimmons because he was a very staunch, and I mean a staunch Republican. And I’m a Democrat, so . . .

But you had a tremendous amount of respect for him?

Oh, yes, yes. To this day, I have never known a man, and he showed my boys to work the fields during the summer so they could make a little money to earn, you know, little things that they needed that we couldn’t afford to get because I was raising a big family and paying rent and all the goodies that go with it.

Well, now, Shawnee was, and still is, really isolated in the sense that you’re a distance out from any other basic town. Did you have any medical care? Was there a doctor in the area if you needed?

Well, our first medical care that we got started at, you know where the Cutthroat is? Okay, now I worked for       Dr. McNamara who came from Wisconsin and Mrs . . . , she was the nurse and she and I worked there. I did all the taking reservations and all and she did the nursing. And then, he motored to Fairplay to the hospital which was, I worked there also.

There was a hospital in Fairplay?

Yeah, there was a hospital. McNamara hospital and there also was a place for the older people.

A retirement home?

Yeah, well, not exactly, but it was where they kept them and took care of them.

A nursing home?

Yeah, a nursing home.

So, you did have a doctor and he operated several days a week out of what is now the Cutthroat?

Yeah, and then he changed his, finally the county got that building that is now the probation office. So that became the next one. Then Dr. McNamara had a fatal, there was a fatal accident on Red Hill in Fairplay and he went to the hospital on the emergency to try to save, he saved two lives and the third one he fell over dead of a heart attack.

Dr. McNamara did?

Yes.

I’ll be darned. Do you remember what year? Was that in the 50’s or early 60’s?

Well, I got the files for that, too. It was so hard to remember all these things and, of course, it was one of the biggest funerals you’ll ever want . . . He was very much loved by the people, Dr. McNamara was. He was just so down to earth, so down to earth.

Well, it sounds like that was the characteristic of a lot of people here at that time. People were here and they took care of each other as well as themselves.

And then when that hospital, when that, when Dr. McNamara died it sort of dwindled down. We couldn’t get a doctor so then they started getting doctors that come every two years a doctor comes in and gets this, whatever it is that he has to have training and he stays there two years and then another one comes in. And so then Dr. (inaudible) came in and a few others and I worked for all of them.

This was after you stopped teaching or during the same period of time?

Well, in between.

So, you had two jobs?

Yeah, like I do now.

Well, it seems like you don’t sit around and wait for things to just happen to you.

No, I sure don’t. I don’t need the rocking chair yet. Anyway, and then, Dr. Reed came in and took over the building, the little building.

In Fairplay?

The one, the probation office.

Outside of Bailey?

Yeah, and then it got to where there were so many people we moved up on the hill where that church is now that has the white domed building in Bailey, well Crow Hill, I mean. You see that church, where that big white dome looks like a tent?

Oh, the inflated one?

Yeah. So then they got that office and it became half dentist office and half, in fact, Dr. Wilson, who is the dentist in Conifer, right to Dr. Linn.

Oh, so that was originally a doctors’ office before the church took it over?

Then it got too small and then we moved to Conifer.

And that office is too small.

And it’s too small so we’re moving somewhere else.

(Inaudible.)

It’s unbelievable.

They must have a lot of patients.

Yes, they do. I bring home stuff to work on because we just can’t do it.

When you moved from Utah, actually from Portland, actually, no you moved from Utah to Shawnee. That was your move, right?

Yeah.

Did your children stay healthy or did you have any problems?

No, not anything to speak of. Two of them had their appendix removed and that was done by Dr. McNamara up on the very top building what is now the McNamara Hospital up there. I don’t know if they still are running it or anything but I know they had a big thing a few years back and I got a special invitation to be there because I had worked there and was one of the old-timers.

Well, I guess so. You’ve been involved for so long. But everybody pretty much stayed healthy?

Pretty much did but they’d rush them to . . . except May Long and her husband were the ones that had a ambulance at that time and they’d run that Long’s Garage and they were the ones that . . .

The Long Brothers that’s down further the hill?

Yeah. May and her husband were really, really wonderful. In fact, her husband was, what is it they call you when they have a big parade and you’re the head of it.

Grand Marshall or something like that?

Yeah. He was one of the Grand Marshall’s. Him and his wife.

Now, when you moved into your apartment, or in the house that you rented in Shawnee, did it have services like telephone and . . .?

Oh, we had our telephone, we had everything in it.

So, it was a fully modern home at that point?

Yeah. Only I made it comfortable for us and, you know.

Was there any social organizations? I assume the church was here.

We had the Women’s Club and the churches, of course. The Catholic Church, the nearest Catholic Church at that time was going towards Pine. St. Elizabeth.

That was quite a haul then from Shawnee.

Yeah, but then they had services at Santa Maria.

Ah, that was in your backyard practically.

And then, I go to the Lutheran church, I teach the 1^st through 6^th grade, I mean 3^rd to 6^th grade Sunday school.

The church right off of Rosalie Road?

Yeah, Shepherd of the Rock, yeah.

I’m trying to think if there’s anything else in particular. Are there any events that you can recall that are really outstanding in your mind that happened since you’ve been in Park County?

Well, usually our Bailey Days thing that we used to have.

It was a big thing, wasn’t it?

Yes. That was about the biggest thing I can think of, on hand. And then we had little parades and parades with horses and, you know, the whole thing and then it got to where insurance was so high they couldn’t afford to pay for it so we had to stop. You couldn’t have those things, you know, a horse could get out of line and a car could.

So, do you know when that was discontinued then?

I’d have to look at my book, again.

Because they just resurrected it over the past two years. But it is probably quite different than it was then.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It was very different.

Was it kind of a more rodeo?

Yeah, at that time it was a rodeo. But now, and then it became what it is now. And then, there for awhile things weren’t working very well so they discontinued it and Dr. Braun, I think you know him, started it all over. Now talk about a busy man, he’s on the go continually.

Well, that’s how you stay alive. What’s your plan, now? Do you plan on staying in Park County?

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. They’ll have to move me out head first.

Really?

(Inaudible.) I’ve been here a long time.

You really love being here?

Oh, I do. I hate going to Denver. I mean, I go to Denver, my daughter lives in Golden and my son lives in Golden. They have nice little places out there. But this is why I’m here. I love it here.

Even with all the changes?

Oh, I’ve seen a lot of changes. I’ve seen ‘em come and I’ve seen ‘em go. This wasn’t here and I think, isn’t that white building up there a little ways up above there?

Oh, you mean the church building?

Yeah.

Yeah, it’s just on the other side of the street here. Now, was there a library in either Shawnee or Bailey?

The library started, you know the liquor store is in Bailey up at the Rustic Square? Okay, we started our little library there and Mr. Gordon was the one that hired me then. You know, I did part time and I worked there and Mary Hoganson, she’s another one that’s an old-timer here. She taught school, I think she taught French. Then what is now the laundromat and that area? Someone put in a Rexall Drugstore which was very, very good, you know, people could get their medicines and everything.

That was a national chain.

Yeah, and there was a lot of people. But then, finally, they couldn’t make it. So then, what we decided, so that’s when we got what we are now. This used to be upstairs (inaudible) county offices and Dr. Linn had a, that’s why I worked upstairs because Dr. Linn had a part-time work up here and I worked those days.

So, this wasn’t built as a library?

No, just the downstairs.

The downstairs was built, okay.

If you look at it now, if you look upstairs you say how did they ever manage? It was hard. Because it was crowded and, but see how nice it is? This wasn’t here before. This all was open and then we decided we’d put the window so we could have a nice little room. And, of course, that right there is private for meetings for groups.

I assumed that this was just built as it is. As a library.

No, it was built but, like I said, the county offices were upstairs and the library was downstairs. You understand, the library had this but I don’t know what happened so we had to separate it out and, finally, we got the upstairs. I shouldn’t be saying those things. 

Well, it’ll be interesting now they’ve built that new county building in Bailey. It’ll be interesting.

Which is very nice. Have you been in it?

Yes, I have.

Very nice building. So, you know, they will take care of everything. We still have a lot of people that come and ask, “Is this where we get out licenses?” and we have to say, “Not here.”

Really? People still come here?

Yeah, they still come here and ask, you know. They say, “We didn’t know. We didn’t know you had a library upstairs.” So they go up there, you know. But I’m downstairs.

The one thing I’ve encountered with some people who are up here, and have been for a long time, is that they really don’t want to see any changes. They don’t want to see a grocery store.

No, they don’t. Especially the older. But I kind of think it’d be nice to have nice big grocery store. It would help not having to go to town. But I don’t know how people feel. Sometimes you’re scared to say anything because they jump down your throat.

Well, the people are very opinionated sometimes.

Oh, yeah. There’s a lot of them. I don’t know if you’ve met (inaudible) Nelson?

No.

She’s very, very into politics. That’s Roy Nelson’s wife, from the store. She can (inaudible).

Definitely interested in having her opinion, huh?

Yep!

Very good. Is there any other experiences or thoughts that you have about your experiences here in Park County?

Not that I know of.

Okay, because this is the kind of information we were looking for. You’ve obviously been here a long time and you have very deep roots in this community.

Oh, yes. Everybody knows me.

Well, that’s like most of the people I’ve interviewed. They’ve been here. They made connections with a lot of people and they’re very committed to the community. And that’s a common thread I’m seeing with a lot of people.

And see I worked with the Lioness. I got Lioness of the year. I worked with VFW. I got Woman of the Year.

So, you’re (inaudible)?

Yes, yes. I’m involved with the Historical Society. I’m involved with the Friends here. Silver (inaudible) shops. So, you know, I’m really involved. I just don’t need anything in town.

Well, you’re self-sufficient here.

Yeah. My grandkids take grandma to eat once in awhile and I go. (Inaudible) I go.

Well, look, I appreciate it very, very much and my mindset is that we’ll get this transcribed at some point in time but in the past we’ve been able to make a duplicate tape and give that tape to you so you have a record of this tape.

Okay, good. And then, that way, like I said, if there’s something, I’ll look up some of this stuff and just give it to you and you can do something with it. I don’t know.

Well, we’ll see what the Historical Society, if they have a provision for doing that. But more than anything else, they wanted to get people’s individual, personal impressions of things and that’s exactly why we’re taping this. Okay?

Yeah.