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Gayle Kingery
Interviewer Robert Hult July 29, 2005 Okay, this is Bob Hult and today is Friday, July 29, 2005, and I’m here with Gayle Kingery and we are in the Bailey Propane office and we’re going to be conducting the discussion of her experiences in Bailey from the mid-1950s. So, Gayle, I guess to get started, if you could just give me your birth date and when you arrived here in Park County. Okay, I was born 7-7-33 in Beemer, Nebraska. I moved to Omaha in ’42 and went all through grade school, high school and college in Omaha. Moved to Denver in ’54 and taught in Denver Public Schools for two years. My husband and I were married in March of ’56 and I’ve lived here ever since. Well, what brought you to the Bailey area? Well, it’s kind of unique. I was a counselor at the Flying G Ranch Girl Scout Camp, the Denver Girl Scout Camp out near Cheesman and out 68, I say, as I look out the window here. I started there in 1950 and I was a counselor there through ’54 and then in ’55 I went up to Tomahawk Ranch which is another of the Girl Scout camps. So, for six years I was a counselor at the Girl Scout Camps. And that’s how I first ever got to Bailey. So, you saw the area . . . Now, you were teaching in Denver? I taught in Denver the years of ’54,’55, ’56, yes. Did you intend to continue teaching when you came up here or what was your thoughts there? I really hadn’t made any plans. I commuted to Denver for about three months after we were married and, in those days, that was almost unheard of. But I had a nice new car so I just drove back and forth to Denver every day. 285 was a paved road at that time, I’m assuming. It was paved, yes, but it had lots of curves in it. Yeah, it’s still got a few of those in there. How long did it take you? I taught clear on the southwest edge of Denver and so it took me right about an hour to get there. It wasn’t a bad drive at all and it was in the spring so it wasn’t so bad, either. Okay. Well, that’s not too bad. So, at that time what was Bailey like in the mid-1950s? Well, it was before the new highway came into Bailey and it was a little two lane highway coming off of Crow Hill and, of course, there were lots of curves on the old Crow Hill road before they cut the slash through the mountain up there and made it just come one straight fell swoop down the hill. When was that done? That was in, I think, ’58. ’57-’58 was when they did the highway, I believe, and maybe into ’59. But it was a curvy road and two lane highway and, of course, only two lanes through Bailey, not four like we have now. The same location? The road was in the same location as it is now? Yes, yes, the road was the same location but they widened it and took property and managed to make four lanes plus a little island through the middle of it and the main street was much like it is right now as far as (inaudible) and the structures on it and that sort of thing. Okay, so the Knotty Pine was there? The Knotty Pine was there, yes. The country store was there. Right. That was the primary grocery store for this area apparently. Definitely. Yes, right. Okay. Now the road that came in, the 285 road, the original road, did it come in where that log house construction is in that little shopping area that . . . Yes, it came down through there. Right up here, yes. It’s kind of a dirt road now but that was the original access down into the city. So it snaked up Crow Hill apparently. And if you’re familiar with old Crow Hill, why, that was the old highway up there. Was that a problem doing that in the winter? Oh, they maintained it pretty well. It’s always the state that has maintained that. Yes, state highway, definitely. All right. Today there’s a lot of traffic that comes from Denver up to the mountains particularly on summer weekends. For sure. There’s a migration on Friday evenings and another one back into town on Sunday evenings. Was that common then? No. Maybe on the first day of fishing season because back then there was one day in April, I guess it was, when fishing season started. It was not a year around sport at that time. And the first day of fishing season there were always a lot of traffic but not like, anything like we have now. Just this influx of traffic. It happens all day long. I mean, this highway is so highly traveled. You always hear on the radio or the TV about I-70 and you never hear about 285. Well, 285 has a lot of traffic on it, too. It’s surprising when you look at Denver weather for instance and they hardly ever recognize that we’re out here. It’s like, oh, and there’s the rest of the state out there. That’s about right. It stops at Jefferson County. Yes, right. It certainly appears to be that’s where their interest is at this point. Okay, so that was paved, well, was it paved at that time? Right now it’s not. Yes, yes. No, the highway was paved all the way. It was paved? Okay, okay. Well, now you’ve had this business, this is the Bailey Propane business, how did you get into this? Okay, originally it was called the Bell Oil Company and it was a standard service station which my father-in-law and mother-in-law traded a dude ranch up at Livermore for this property in 1953. The dude ranch just wasn’t doing too well. I’m not sure why but that was before my time and so they traded it for this property and came here with my husband and ran what was called the Bell Oil Company and that was a standard service station. Now, did they start it here or was it . . . No, it was here. It was already a Bell. It was a standard station at that time? It was called Bell Oil Company. The reason it was called Bell Oil was that Doc Bell, who subsequently became a sheriff of Park County, had originally started this company and it was called Bell Oil Company but there had been a couple of other owners in the meantime, before my in-laws took it over. So that was in July of ’53 and it’s a three generation business. In 1992, my husband closed down the gas station part of it, or the gas station, because we had all these old rusting underground tanks that . . . it was just prohibitive to replace them and so he closed that part down. Well, Bell Oil and Bailey Propane had been sister companies for, well, since 1954 actually, and so we just have concentrated on the Bailey Propane and our two sons, Scott and Shawn, run Bailey Propane and so it’s third generation. Pretty exciting. It’s been here for a long time. More than 50 years, right. Were the tanks for the gasoline business, were they actually removed? Yes. We had to pay to have them removed and bring in fill dirt and, you know, monitor wells for years and it was a big hassle. But it’s all cleared out and cleaned up and so . . . Well, I know for a period of time there was a lot of service stations that had these big fiberglass tanks that they were replacing the old steel ones with so I’m sure that was very expensive to do. I’m sure. Has business been good throughout the years or were there periods of time that it came and went or . . .? It kind of came and went after the self-serve and C stores came in but we did go to self-serve as well as full service gas station and then we did okay but it just, the margin of profit was very poor in the gas business. When does Loaf and Jug come in? Up at the top of the hill? No, well, what is this down here? Oh, this is Conoco down here. It’s Conoco, yeah. Oh, boy, I don’t even remember. ’90 maybe. In ’90. Okay, that’s pretty current. It’s very recent that they put that in? Right. Okay, so that was just about the time that you were trying to get out. Yes, and we just figured we couldn’t compete because we didn’t want to be a C store and we were a full service gas station as far as lube, oil and filters and tires and everything like that. Had mechanics on duty and that sort of thing but it just wasn’t gonna go much longer with all the little fast lube places in town and everything so my husband just decided to get out of the business. So he and the boys ran the propane business and they are now managing the propane business. We’re proud of the three generations for sure. Well, I guess so. To have a business of that length of time, that’s kind of remarkable and, you know, be a viable continuous situation. Yes, right. Have you had any incidents with propane in the area? I know there was a home in Deer Creek Valley Ranch, it was like a month ago, that some individual tried to light a pilot light . . . Yeah, no we’ve never had any kind of an incident at all. Never anything. Our drivers are very carefully screened and schooled in hazardous materials. Well, yeah, it’s hazardous stuff. And insurance. We pay through the nose because of the hazardous materials that we deal in. Now, your tanks are down at the other end of town? The storage tank, yes, and we have another storage tank in South Park down Highway 9. There’s a, oh I forget what they call it, not a farm but anyhow there are three different propane companies that lease property from the county and have their big storage tanks there and we have one of them. That has just happened within the last couple of years because we have expanded into the South Park area. I don’t think there’s any natural gas service down there and the only alternative would be electric heat which is quite costly. Yes, right, and a lot of places don’t even have electricity in some of those areas. Both of our drivers that live down in the Buffalo don’t have electricity, they use generators. Really? How about solar? Do they use solar at all? I don’t know whether they do or not. I talked to a gentleman down in Hartsel and he’s been off grid for years. He has a solar grid and he’s happy as a clam. Well, that’s good. It seems to work just fine for him. I don’t think you could heat a home with electricity that you generate but other than that it seems to work just fine. Now you had mentioned that sometimes this traffic that comes down 285 at the bottom of the hill, that’s where this location is, right at the very bottom of Crow Hill. Have there been accidents? Uh, huh. Any number of times that a truck will lose its breaks or a driver’s unfamiliar with the area and the fact that there’s a curve right at the bottom of the hill and through the years I suppose there’ve been maybe, oh, ten to twelve semis that have crashed at the bottom of Crow Hill, one of which we were hit head on by. You’re building was? No. We in our car was hit head on. Oh, really? Yes, in 2001. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, we were parked . . . we were turning left down to turn into the Knotty Pine and stopped and here came this truck just at us like this. He lost his brakes or had something faulty and we were hit head on. That’s scary. Was anybody hurt? Well, my husband was airlifted to St. Anthony’s and I was transported to Swedish. I got to come home that night but he had to stay for four days in the hospital just because he had so many medical problems anyway that they wanted to keep observing him. But it totaled our car and that was a scary thing. Well, you know the building’s scary in the sense that if somebody misses you could have a truck into this building. Well, and we have had a used oil transport come in to here. Not into the building but into the driveway and just splashed all this horrible dirty oil just all over. Oh, it was a mess! How long ago was that? Oh, you know, dates I don’t remember that well but 15 years ago maybe. 20 years ago. Well you had mentioned that when they (inaudible) this little median in between. That’s kind of unusual for a little mountain town. Do you know what caused them to put that little divider in there? I have no idea. Because they got little planters in there. Yeah, right, the planters are nice and people keep those up with different holiday themes and things like that. I wonder how that got started? And that was started by mostly Linda Henley over at the Moore Lumber. She was very instrumental in that and Ed Teaky built the planters. Do you know what period that was in? Was it here when you, well it wasn’t here in the ‘50s. No, oh no. That’s just been within the last twelve years maybe. Okay, but the median, that little divider in the middle, has been there since the road was improved. That has been there, yes. Yes, that’s right. And when was that roughly? Do you remember? Well, that was whenever they brought the highway through. Okay, so late ‘50s then. Yeah, late ‘50s, right. The logic of why they would do that? I don’t know. It’s nicer than having those cement things like they have in Turkey Creek or something like that. Course those are removable, they can move those around. You have to make a u-turn if you want to come back this way. We’ll go to like the Knotty Pine or the Canyon Grill and then to turn around and go back you have to go around and it would almost be nice to have some kind of turnaround area because people come flying down from the south end. Really, the thing is, if you try to come from The Cutthroat of the country store onto the highway that is a very difficult place to get on. Absolutely. And there’s so much traffic. You can’t see if you want to go left out of there. No, no. Right, that’s true. We hope someday they will close that off to left turn traffic there. Make it only right turn. (Inaudible) put a light there or a stop light there. Oh, I hope not. No lights in Bailey! It was something when they put one at the top of Crow Hill, so . . . and have ‘em in Fairplay now. They have a light in Fairplay. Somebody told me years ago that Denver water, at one time, was interested in seeing whether in fact a dam could be put in this canyon over here? Well, down this way. Down the river. Because there are some drill holes just off to the left hand side of 285 as you head this way from the high school. From the school, yeah, and I don’t know what those are. Somebody told me that was a test to test the rock to see whether in fact it would be appropriate for a dam. That location certainly wouldn’t work but, at one point, there was an interest in trying to flood this whole area. Oh, yeah, Two Forks Dam. There was a lot of talk about that. Two Forks would have flooded the city itself? Uh, huh. Really? They’d have had to re-route the highway. Well, yeah. So, you know, as far as I know they have discontinued even discussing that. They just gave up on that. What period was that? Was that the ‘80s? Oh, it was in the ‘80s, yes, right. And that would have wiped this whole area out. It would have flooded Glen Isle and up to Shawnee? Almost to the high school, I think it was. Interesting. Yeah, I remember reading about it. At that time, we were living in Bailey or in Parker so I really didn’t pay a whole lot of attention to exactly what area. And I’m not sure how far down the river here it would have started. At Buffalo Creek or something and just . . . Flooded right back up in here. Okay. Somebody asked me the other day, a gal who had just come back here after having been in Alaska for a number of years, and she said, “What are these old, old, bumper stickers I see that say ‘Don’t Dam Bailey’”? So I told her then about the Two Forks Reservoir. So there was an active resistance on it. Yes, oh, yes. Definitely. Was there a formal organization that was . . . No, no. Everybody was just against it. We didn’t want to see something like that happen for sure. Well, my impression is that Park County can be pretty independent in a lot of ways. I know that, most recently, that when Aurora tried to get some water out of South Park, get water rights, and they bought it successfully as it turned out. But much of South Park is dry now because of the fact that the water rights have been sold off. Yes, that’s right. That’s a shame because I understand, at one time, South Park was a great farming area. It was beautiful. The ranches up there with all their hay, I mean, oh it was gorgeous! Okay, so you were here during the time that they were doing active ranching in South Park? Yes, oh yes. All the different . . . the Wall Ranch, the Coyle Ranch, the Walt Johnson Ranch, the Ralph Johnson, Walt Steiner Ranch, the Ralph Johnson Ranch, Frank Collard, all those people. Were they growing alfalfa or hay or what was it? Hay. Hay primarily. Basically cattle feed. Right. I understand at one time it was world class horse food. They were growing grass for horses. I did hear something about that. I really don’t know. Supposedly they shipped into Denver and Denver would ship it anywhere in the world because the quality of the grass was something just ideal. When did those water rights get sold off then? In the ‘70s I suppose. Okay, so you’ve seen that change then from being a lush valley to now pretty much fallow. Right. And then all of the subdivisions all around the outside, at the edge of South Park. I mean there are so many subdivisions up there now and when people are building a second home, a lot of second homes up there, it’s not just a little one room cabin with a path to the outhouse. It’s these beautiful log homes and just amazing the things that are going on on the perimeter of South Park. And, of course, Fairplay is really booming too, really. I’m surprised they don’t have a food store in Fairplay yet. They do. Well, that little shop. Some new store and I have not been there. You’re right. There is a new grocery store right out on 285. Yes, I’ve seen the ad in the Flume and then, of course, they floated a bond and got a recreation district and built a pool. They got the fire department building. They got street lights downtown. Yes, doing all kinds of things up there. Of course, they’re an incorporated town, too. Which is very rare in Park County. Right. Which we are not. Fairplay and Alma are the only two. And, of course, we are not down here. Everybody’s just their own little entity. There’s never been a mayor. There’s been a town council. There’s never been a town. I mean it’s Bailey but it’s not really a formal town. In fact, I was told at one time that Bailey was considered a . . . in fact, they wanted to split the county in half and this part of the pass would be separate county because there appears to be different interests between South Park and here. We’re aligned with Denver and their aligned to the ranching community. So their interests are quite . . . I can’t imagine managing the two areas. Politically, have you seen much in the way of changes in Park County over the years? What do you mean politically? Well, the way the county is managed. At times it appears that Park County can get pretty contentious on political issues. In fact, I understand they threw out county commissioners several years ago. Oh, yeah, they kind of do that. I vote in the elections and that’s about the extent of it. I’m not active politically whatsoever. I see. Is there any perception you have living here as opposed to say the Denver area in terms of are people more politically involved or are they more independent or do they just not care? Do you have any impressions? I think probably when you live in a smaller community like this you’re more aware of what’s going on and maybe become more involved than in a big city but I’m not involved. What were the issues associated with why the commissioners were recalled? I don’t remember what that was. I really don’t. That was in the ‘80s? Maybe ‘90s. I’m not sure when that was but before we were here in Park County ourselves. Churches in the area? There’s Platte Canyon Community Church. Are there other churches in the area? Oh, there are quite a number now. At one time, Platte Canyon was the only church in the area besides a little mission church up at Santa Maria at the Catholic Camp up there. Platte Canyon Church, I was on the church board when it was, let’s see, February 10 of 1957 is when it became a legal entity with the state. Oh, okay. That’s when it was actually formally organized? Yes, formally. I mean we had met for years prior to that. Met up at the community center and then Mrs. Failing donated what is now the fellowship hall and it was an old barn. She donated it to the church. What was her name? Grace Failing. She had the house right there where the big house is next to it there. Okay, so that was the barn of that property? Somebody told me it was like a potato farm? A potato barn. And then also downstairs they had ice because all the walls are like, of course, it’s a mansard roof so it’s like that. But then downstairs all the walls are like this thick and full of sawdust to keep the ice. Because it’s close to the ponds of Shawnee? No, there were ponds where the trailer court is now. Really?! They were right there? Yes, there were ponds right here. And they made ice and then they would store them in the barn and then they would ship ‘em to Denver on the railroad? Yes, right. Okay, I’ve never heard about that. Now, I don’t remember that but I’ve heard that. Well, that makes all kinds of sense. But then she donated the building and we worked on that really hard and it was only just this old barn building with a basement was all it was to start with. So, you met in the fellowship hall initially? Uh, huh. Okay. And then we’ve worked on it for all these years and now it’s . . . but then there are other churches. Friendship Baptist and the Lutheran church at the top of the hill and Crow Hill Bible, Harris Park Bible. Any number of other churches have come in but at one time it was only Platte Canyon Community Church was the only church in the area besides the little mission chapel up at Santa Maria. Would you characterize this Bailey area as more Protestant in general? Probably because there are more Protestant churches. Yeah, exactly. That’s my impression. Social activities. What was it like . . . what did you do for fun here in the ‘50s and late ‘50s? Raised kids. Ha! Ha! That’s fun. Yeah, okay! Well, we had little social groups just among the young couples with young families and we’d get together on a Saturday night and the guys would play poker and the girls would play bridge and the kids . . . we put all the kids down and let ‘em sleep. This would be at their homes? We traded around different homes. You mentioned a community center. Where was that? Oh, the community center’s what is now the VFW building in Shawnee. Oh, Shawnee. Now was that actually a county building? It is now, yes. It was built by the Bailey Federated Women’s Club back in the, I think, the late ‘40s. And it was a woman’s club building but they held all kinds of activities there. This is the VFW now? The VFW occupies it most of the time? That’s right. They maintain it and manage it but it is a county building now. How did the county get it if it was built by this (inaudible)? I think because the women’s club disbanded and maybe that was part of the stipulations when it was built or something. I don’t know. Jim Hartford would know that. Now, when you guys got together you would just go to a home? You wouldn’t necessarily use that recreation . . . Oh, no, no. We just, maybe four or six couples, just got together at somebody’s home. Did you go into Denver periodically? We did not because of the pressure of the business that we were in. We didn’t do a lot of that. We went to Denver for medical appointments, dental appointments, but because my husband worked from 7 in the morning till 9 at night 7/24 for many years. That’s because the service station was open all the time? Uh, huh. And it was a full service station. Right. So you had mechanics here. And that was full service so people would go out. You’d pull up which is hard to imagine now. That’s right. Wash the windshields, check the oil, all that. Sure. Our business was open all, just all the time. We were closed Christmas Day, Thanksgiving Day and Horse Show Day which was usually the 4th of July because there used to be a horse show that the firemen would put on down in an arena that used to be down here where the, what’s the name of this little garage down here, Platte Canyon Automotive. There used to be an arena down there and they would put on a 4th of July horse show. And this had gone on . . . That was in the ‘50s. Late ‘50s. Were there little stands that people could sit into? Mostly people just milled around the outside of the arena or sat up on the hill over here and watched from their cars. It wasn’t a big thing but . . . Small town. It was. That sounds like fun. Were there other activities besides the horse show? No, just the horse show. What holiday was that? 4th of July. Were there other, for instance Bailey Days. When did that get started? It was either ’75 or ’76 in conjunction with the Colorado Centennial so I think they started it in’75 so we would be ready for ’76 so we could really . . . because that was the Centennial year. Good idea. We used to have a parade, a wonderful parade. It would start clear out 68 here and come onto the highway and at that time they let us use the state highway for a parade. We had horses, bands, floats and that was in the, when we still had the parade was in the ‘60s. We still had the parade. All local? Well, sometimes the Westernnaires would come up and sometimes bands would come from other places and, of course, we had all the booths down on the main street there. Like they do now? Uh, huh. But we had the parade and that was just really wonderful. It would go on one section of the highway and then go across the bridge by Moore Lumber and disband then back on 64 there past the church and disband along there. Was that tied to a specific day, like a holiday? No, it was the Bailey Day Parade. Was it like a type of a holiday? It used to always be the second Saturday in August. For years it was the second Saturday in August. What caused it to stop then? I don’t know. It just stopped? I guess that some of the old timers who really headed it up just either got tired or moved or weren’t getting enough support or something. Just within the past couple of years they’ve resurrected it. They started it again. But they don’t have a parade? No. They have the kids’ parade. Just a little walking parade down there but it used to be the highlight of the day. And then you’d have a street dance until like 11:00 at night. Really?! It was a full day thing then. It was, yes. Some people call it Bailey Days. Well, it’s never been Days plural it’s always just been one day. And there used to be a Grand Marshall for the parade and they would ride in some cute little old car of some kind. And that started, I believe, in ’75. I’m sure that there are somewhere in people’s files and shoeboxes pictures that people have taken of that parade. I think so. That’d be really interesting if we could find those because it sounds like just a great local event. It’s a classic American . . . And it was. A little local parade and event and organized and put on by local people. Right, and all the clubs and organizations would have some kind of a little booth to get lemonade or different things like that. Pies and then gradually more and more vendors came in and so it’s changed. All things change. What do you think of it now? What I miss the most now besides the parade is the firemen with their hoses. The fireman competition. Well, they did get the different fire companies to come with a truck and a pumper and then they would do the ball up on the wire. And you know the North Fork and Elk Creek and Inner Canyon and Jefferson Como and I think they had like six the last time they had that which was maybe three or four years ago. It was before it was disbanded, I believe, for the couple years that we didn’t have a Bailey Day. So it was just a two year period that they didn’t have Bailey Day? I think so. And then they resurrected it again. So, maybe it ended around 2000, 2001, sometime in that time frame? Could be. That’s probably about right. But they did it every year starting from the, was it the ‘50s you think? No, ’75. Oh, it started in ’75. The Bailey Days started in ’75. Okay. Your husband was very much involved with the fire department here in Bailey. Tell me more about that. How did he get involved in the first place because he already had this business that he was pretty preoccupied with. And they moved here in July of ’53 and his dad, he and his dad both joined the fire department when they moved here. It was a small . . . the fire department headquarters was over there where the Bailey Towing lot is now. It was a building right on the highway and I’m not sure when that building was built but then when one of the trucks came down the hill and wiped out it took that building. Ooops! And that was, I don’t remember the year. It hasn’t been that long ago but Doug Cross had an auto repair shop in there and that was after they built the firehouse down here and I think the one on the hill both. So it hasn’t been that long ago but it took out the original old Bailey firehouse so my husband and his father both . . . So did it actually have engines in there or had bays for . . . They had one little truck which was a pickup. They had a little jeep that had a 55 gallon drum on the back of it and in 1959 they acquired this beautiful, I think it was a France pumper and it is now called the parade truck and it’s always referred to as Dick’s truck because he was instrumental in fundraising or whatever to get this pumper and it’s stored, I think it’s up at Firehouse 4 up in Harris Park and they store it and when they have special events they get that beautiful red truck out. But they had just barely any equipment and when you think of what they have now, it’s just fantastic. It’s probably one of the most functional facilities in Park County. Oh, yes. They really do a great job. And one year Dick was fire chief. His dad had been fire chief sometime prior to that and Scott, our older son, is deputy fire chief now and so he’s been on the force since I think he was 17, something like that, so he has a lot of years in. Scott has a lot of years in. Well, yeah, your whole family has a major commitment to the fire department here. Right, definitely. Do you recall any incidents that he was involved with fire situations here in Park County? No, except as the time went on and he got older he just would say because everybody is so well trained and there’s so much liability, all that sort of thing, he would say, “I honestly don’t know what I would do if I were fire chief now.” It’s changed that much since then? Yes, right. And of course it was all volunteer then. Now we have a couple paid guys, several paid guys. So it’s just different but then we have to have that because of the population and the area that we cover. Well, I know when we had the Snaking fire it was pretty scary. It was scary. I was right over the ridge here and it could have theoretically wiped out the town. I never thought living in beautiful downtown Bailey that I would have to evacuate my house for a fire. Now you live right across the road here? Yes, we live right across the highway and the river. It’s a white or gray house with a green roof, chain link fence and a burro in the front yard. My pet burro, Bonita, is in the front yard. I see. She keeps your grass down. Right. That’s good. Now did you build that house? No, oh no. Oh, that house is, the front part of the house, the living room is the old original log cabin that’s been on there and according to the abstract that’s been there since like 1882 or something. The walls are this thick in part of the house. But it’s been built onto any number of times and every time somebody needs to build onto it they just, you know, it’s not plumb, not at all. Little attachments here and there. That’s where we live is right across the, right in the middle of beautiful downtown Bailey. You’re right in the epicenter of it. Do you know the history of those? There are a string of homes that were built along there and I don’t know if they were built as resort kind of places or like summer homes? I don’t know. I really don’t know. Huh. It would be interesting to know what the origin of those homes were but you say it goes back to the late 1800’s? Yes, and there are, most of those houses over there are the old, are old houses. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. There’s a guy building a new house down at the east end of River Drive, which is where we live, and then there’s a big log house which is a relatively new house just within the last 15 years or something but all the rest of the houses on that little road down from the post office are old houses. And our house is behind ‘em. Yeah, it’s right on the creek or on the river. Right on the river, right on the river, yes. I’m sure the EPA would have something to say about that. Well, in the years you’ve been here, which has been since the late ‘50s, what do you see as the biggest changes in the Bailey area that you’ve seen or you actually lived through for that period? Well, the population influx and the commuting to Denver. I mean, we’re a bedroom community, let’s face it. Absolutely. I mean, Denver doesn’t recognize that yet but in fact I was told up to 75% of this area commutes on a daily basis. I’m sure that’s right. I’m sure so. And then the schools have improved so much because when we first lived here it was just this little, well it used to be the main building at Id-Ra-Ha-Je, that was the school up there and then, I mean that had four classrooms and that was . . . You raised three children here. Yes, but my kids all went to the first little school up here that was built after the Roberts Tunnel came in. Oh, okay! So it’s still there yet? Yes, oh yes, right. Okay, so Id-Ra-Ha-Je had moved, they had moved the school from Id-Ra-Ha-Je up there by the time you came with the kids? Yes, right. Because the Roberts Tunnel provided quite a sizable amount of money to build the new school up here because of the influx of miners coming in to work on the Roberts Tunnel. They had to have more room. In fact, there was a gentleman that just lives down from the post office that worked on the Roberts Tunnel. I interviewed him several years ago. Was that Clyde Johnson? Yes. Yeah, okay. His kids all graduated from school here. Yep. He worked on that tunnel and he also worked on the Eisenhower Tunnel. Yeah, right. So the schools certainly have changed. Oh, definitely, oh so much the better. I mean that was a real plus, the way the schools have changed. Now, when you moved here in the ‘50s, this wasn’t a bedroom community. Was it more isolated? No, no. What was it considered at that time? Well, everybody had their own little, I mean there was Moore lumber and there was Bell Oil and there was Burgess Country Store and there was the post office and we didn’t, we had like the Ranger Café and the Bailey Café, the Knotty Pine, but it wasn’t always open, Rustic Inn, this was a restaurant over here before but they razed that and built a whole new complex over here. Oh, so that’s a new structure then? Then there was Lazy Ours Resort, Glen Isle Resort, Mooredale Resort . . . Lazy Isles? Lazy Ours. Ours. Where was that? Well, that was between Glen Isle and Mooredale on the right hand side of the highway. I don’t know whether the name is still there or not. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen that there. Now, Glen Isle has been there. I interviewed Barbara Tripp, in fact, several years ago. That goes back to before the turn, actually just after the turn of the century. Yeah, right. So, this was kind of a recreational area. My impression was that this was considered a fishing, hunting, summer camp, kind of place. It was. People would come from the mid-West and spend a week at Glen Isle or two weeks at Glen Isle and it was more a resort community at that time. Okay. And it was in the ‘50s when you were here. When do you think that transition . . . was it gradual or do you think there was a transitional point? I think as we became a more mobile society and people went further for vacations, they didn’t just come 40 miles up the mountain to spend two weeks or they went further or got in their cars and didn’t stay in one place for all the time. I remember as a kid after World War II we would go to Estes Park and stay there for two weeks in the same cabin but we went out daily for different things. Now, people just move from place to place to place to place. They don’t stay in one place. Right, that’s why we have an oil crisis. Oh, Maverick! You’re all wet! He’s been in the creek. I’m trying to think if there’s anything else in particular. Uh, you’ve seen a lot of change, obviously. I have, yes, yes. This reminds, all this change reminds me of what Evergreen was 35, 30-40 years ago. How, you know, it was just this cute little mountain community and now how that has ballooned over there. Well, it’s happening here now. Well, I saw that happen with Parker. When we moved to Parker in 1981 it was close but still a distinct community. It had one stop light that most people ignored anyway and there were just a few stores and it had its own character and we saw in the space of 20 years it became part of the contiguous Denver Metropolitan area. Lost its character and that’s why we ended up moving out. It would be interesting . . . do you think that same kind of thing could happen here in Bailey? I think it’s happening. Really? Well, anytime you become part of a bigger . . . I don’t think that we’re part, not that we’re part of Denver but that we are just ballooning here and now with all this talk of these at least three new subdivisions with so many (tape is interrupted). I read in, maybe it was in the High Timber Times, just this week that this one they’re gonna put ‘em on quarter acre plots. I thought we had land use regulations that said it had to be a certain amount. Well, we do but it says on the paper (inaudible) so if it’s not part of the planning process it just doesn’t happen. And then what will happen to our schools and road maintenance and those sorts of things? I have a real concern about that. Well, the question is the county always complains about the fact that they don’t have any money and the only way you’re gonna get money is through commercial development and if you don’t have commercial development then taxes never get there. But the problem is you don’t get commercial development without a lot of residents. Yeah, that’s true. And so people say well the PILT funds will help to alleviate that. Well it doesn’t. Especially with the services that all these new people are demanding. They expect, that’s it. They move to the mountains but expect what they’ve had in the city. From the time that you were here in the ‘50s, the nature of the people here as opposed to the ones that you’re finding here now in Park County or in the Bailey area, do you see a change there in their attitudes or expectations? I think they’re not as committed to things. I see that in parents all the time. They’re just not as committed to what their kids are doing and the school system and you know they’re so busy commuting that they don’t have time to do that. Well, a lot of women are working and the husband’s gone and the children are left to the school system or on their own devices. I see a lot of pacifism. Just let it go, you know. Let somebody else . . . I’m not sure what the answer there is. I don’t know either. But you saw in the ‘50s, you saw personal involvement of the family? Yes, definitely. Tighter family units? Right, and in community activities and that sort of thing, too. But that’s because people don’t have the time to do it. I mean, there’s so many diversions these days. Well, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And you know people would zip into Denver for a concert or something or a ball game or . . . Or dinner, just go to Denver. Yeah, we do that too sometimes and you know that’s one of the reasons we moved here is because the access is so good. It is, yes. We’re thankful for the medical facilities down there, that we’re that close to all that sort of thing and a play or something, you know, if you want to go why it’s there. Yeah, takes an hour. From our home to downtown is one hour and it took us an hour to go from Parker to downtown primarily because of the traffic.So less distance, more traffic, so eventually we’ll probably have the same problem. I’m sure. Uh, medical support. When you came here in the ‘50s was there a resident doctor here in Bailey or a dentist? No. Nothing? No. So you had to go to Denver if you wanted . . . or Fairplay, I suppose there was a doctor over there. There was a doctor there and a very small hospital. In Fairplay? Uh, huh. Actual hospital? A little hospital but they closed that down. A doctor couldn’t make it there and so we went to Denver. We had a pediatrician down in Lakewood and a dentist clear in downtown Denver at the Republic Building. I see. Convenient, I’m sure! And so that’s where we . . . I had my kids all at Presbyterian Hospital. Had to go to Denver. Well, there’s no hospital up here. That’s right. And there still isn’t. No. In fact, I don’t know . . . there’s no doctor or dentist here in Bailey. There’s a dentist on top of Crow Hill. Oh, really? There’s one up there? In that Crow Hill office complex up there? Yes, right. (Tape ends.) Side B . . . serious problem. They have to call the emergency services apparently. Just call 911, yes. That’s what you get but it’s a haul into Denver if you have extensive medical problems. It’s either fright flight for life or a long ambulance ride. But I think the staff on the ambulances are very well qualified to deal with most anything unless it’s just a terribly life threatening thing. Right. Well, I would imagine because there’s been some pretty nasty situations with Highway 285. Definitely, right. I know there’ve been trucks . . . there was a truck that went off just on the south side of Bailey a year ago. It was a tanker truck and they ended up just letting that thing burn and I’m sure the driver was not able to survive that one. No, he didn’t. I have a picture of it right up there. Oh, yeah. Tankard explodes in Bailey. That’s quite a picture. So if you have a serious medical problem this may not be the best place in the world to be. No, I guess not. Now my husband dealt with diabetes for years and he ended up having to go in a couple of times in the ambulance just because of other things but you know we’re thankful to have that. We never used to have that. We used to have Rudy and May Long down at Long Bros. Garage and they had their old station wagon outfitted for an ambulance. Really? That was the ambulance service for this area. Long Brothers? Yes. They would respond to calls. Really? So, that’s interesting. So did they come out to Bailey? They would. And would they go down to Shawnee? Uh, huh. Holy, cow. Or else you’d transport ‘em yourself. Right. Which is the closest hospital then? Probably Swedish. Okay. In Denver? Uh, huh. Littleton, you have to take 470 over to and then St. A’s you have to go in Colfax to get to St. A’s so it’s . . . So that’s always been an issue here. The fact that you don’t have anybody local. No. We did have a clinic on top of Crow Hill at one time but they moved it to Conifer because it, I guess probably there wasn’t enough usage of it here. I mean it was a real medical clinic staffed with doctors and physical therapists and that sort of thing. Well, the one that’s up there now. Yeah, right, that was the one that was up here. The one at Crow Hill now is just certain hours . . . Yes, it is. It’s very sporadic. They do have a doctor in there. I think she’s pretty much by herself. I’m not even sure they have a nurse to support her. I think she’s by herself so, you know, for inoculations and physical exams and . . . More well being type . . . I think so. If you had an emergency you could run in there and if it wasn’t, if you had a cut or something that needed stitching that’d be fine but it had to be during those hours so that could be something of a challenge. Oh, goodness! Other than that, one other thing I can think of since the ‘50s, have you seen any difference in the weather patterns? Yes. I definitely have. I read the weather for the national weather service as a cooperative observer and have done so for more than 25 years and I have a weather station over at my house so I measure the precipitation and do the high and the low readings and things like that but we do not have as severe winters as we had 50 years ago. Definitely not. I once saw a 53 below here and that was back in the ‘60s. Really? Holy, cow! 53 below zero. But we haven’t had anything near that for years. It gets to 20 below, that’s a special day. The elevation at Bailey is what about . . . 7733. 7733? Okay, so it’s not that high. No, but it’s down in this canyon. That’s true and it gets cold. It’s like several other places in Colorado. They’re in a valley and it gets really cold and stays cold. It can be warm, much warmer on top of the hill than down here in the canyon but definitely there has been a weather change over this period of 50 years that I have noticed. Have you noticed it accelerating or has it been a gradual increase in temperatures from that period in the ‘50s to now or do you see more of an acceleration of that temperature in the last few years? I think it’s a gradual thing and I know we don’t have near the snowfall we used to have. Well, that’s the other question. So we have less snow than we used to years ago? Less snow, less rain. We used to have afternoon showers every afternoon. I remember that in the ‘80s. And we don’t have, obviously we don’t have that anymore. It was like clockwork. Yeah, right. And then it would clear up and you’d have a nice evening. It would just be comfortable and I thought it was remarkable when we moved here in the early ‘80s it was an automatic thing starting in July and so it made summers very pleasant and kept things green. Right. And we used to have much more snow than we have now with the exception of like the March blizzard and that sort of thing as far as . . . That was the exception to the rule! We just had more snow, colder weather. I can remember bundling my kids up to go just from the house to the car and go somewhere and now people just pick the kids up and you know . . . course I don’t wear a coat so . . . So, maybe global warming is affecting this area. It could be and it might just be a cycle, too. Yeah, and we don’t understand geologic cycles. They could be many, many . . . I have certainly found it interesting to do the weather reports through these years and to compare one year’s precipitation to another year’s precipitation. Well, you mentioned it could be very spotty, too. Very, definitely. So one area might get a nice rain and if it’s a very isolated storm it could dump like crazy in one spot and another area may remain dry. I went to choir practice Sunday night and somebody said, “Oh, we had such a nice rain at Pine Junction,” and somebody else said “and up Deer Creek” and I said, “We got three drops in Bailey.” So, it really is sporadic. Well, it’ll be interesting to see what happens to that pattern over the years. Of course, sometimes these cycles can be many, many hundreds of years. That’s it, yes. Right. Like 1200-1400 A.D., Europe had a cold period and the Seine River froze. They call it the Little Ice Age. It was like 300 years so we don’t know. No, we won’t be here to worry about it. No, that could be an issue, but it would interesting to see if it’s something that’s man-induced or whether it’s something that’s just a natural cycle. Yes, that’s right. Well, is there anything else you can think of about your experiences here in Bailey? Well, something that we had to bring into Bailey to keep the businesses, especially the restaurants, going was the Bailey Water and Sanitation District. We had to bring in a well, wells, and then run sewer lines all through Bailey. And there’s a sewer processing plant? Right down here. Oh, where the ponds are. No, you don’t see it from the highway or the road but it’s that building right down there past the bales of hay. Oh, okay. But, anyhow, that had to come because the ground was being polluted by everybody’s septic tank and the water was not clear and pure for the drinking in the establishments and that sort of thing and my father-in-law was instrumental. He was one of the five original businessmen in town who got that going with some grants and that sort of thing. What time frame, roughly, was that? Early ‘60s. And then my husband served on the water board after his dad died and then our younger son, Shawn, is a member of the water board after Dick died, or Dick retired actually because he wasn’t able to get out at night anymore or anything like that so Shawn has. So that’s a three generation Kingery thing, too. Absolutely. You really have your roots in Bailey. The fire department, business and Bailey Water and San. So did you float a bond to be able to put that system in? No, they did it through grants and we had to have tap fees, of course, and it has expanded a lot through the years and now we’re selling water. I mean people bring their tanks and jugs and all that sort of thing. Sell water . . . Where’s that done? That’s up just beyond El Rio. Oh, okay. There’s a little red building off to the side there and that’s where the well and all that sort of thing is. So, they don’t tap into the Platte River? Their deep ground well waters? Both. Do you filter the water? Oh, yeah. Oh, yes, definitely. So, it’s treated water? And we have a maintenance person. A Class C or, you know, a guy that knows what to do with all that stuff and everything like that. Mack McMullen. He does that and so otherwise I don’t know what would have happened to Bailey if we could not have done that when we did. And all the houses, you have to hook onto the sewer. You can still maintain your own well if you want to. And with the expansion up here on top of the hill that’s bringing more business into the district. Now, you mean the top of Crow Hill? No, no, just right up here across from the log home place up there. They’re building a bunch of homes up there. Really? There’s a condominium with, I think, eight units in it up there that’s finished and their selling now and then they’re building homes. I understand there was a hotel up there at one time. At the time that the railroad was coming through there was a big hotel which burned down. There was and that was where the log home building site is up there. Okay, so the log home building site is actually on the site of the old hotel? Uh, huh. So, this new development is up above that? Yes. That makes sense then that they would want to tap into your system. Oh, yes. Well, you think about it, it’s a small valley and if you have a lot of septic systems it’s all gonna funnel down into one area and if your water system’s right there or where the source is right there, yeah, it could contaminate the Platte River, too. So, but that was a real plus to bring the water and sanitation district in. Well, that would certainly be essential for an area that’s beginning to grow. Right. And then they expand a little bit every now and then. I don’t know that they’ve gone to Farmers’ Union but I think they go as far as Granny’s Attic. I know Barbara Tripp said they were having some water problems at Glen Isle so I don’t know what might happen there. They don’t extend there now, do they? No. She must have her own well and septic system? Uh, huh. What is the history on the Farmers’ Union? What started that? Was that actually like a grange? It was a ranch. It was the Ned Corbin Ranch originally and then I don’t know how the Farmers’ Union acquired it. Is the Farmers’ Union a social organization or what? It’s sort of like the grange. Yeah, well my impression was . . . It’s mid-western states and it’s an educational center, a camp, and then they rent out facilities there to other organizations or Lyle cooks for everybody, you know, he caters whatever. We had a wedding reception, two wedding receptions out there. That sort of thing. But it started out as a ranch? Oh, yes. It was a ranch. A cattle ranch? A working ranch, definitely. Was it a ranch at the time you came in the ‘50s. No. Well, it was but it wasn’t that much of a working ranch and then they built the Farmers’ Union. I’m not sure what decade that was. They built the current building after you got here? Yes, right. Probably in the ‘70s. Is there an organization? A Farmers’ Union? It’s a national organization. It is? Okay.
Yes, National
Farmers’
Union and
they bring
busloads of
kids in for
camps from
Minnesota,
North Dakota,
South Dakota,
and they
spend a week
here and they
have lots of
facilities
down there.
It is. Just beautiful. Along the river and then it goes on down below and there are beautiful meadows down below along the river. It’s really pretty. Well, . . . If you want any information about that you can talk to Lyle Fetterly who is the manager out there. Does he live out there or? Uh, huh. Yeah, they may want to explore that some more. I really don’t know. It was the Ned Corbin Ranch, was what it was originally. And that had apparently probably been there a long time. Yes. Well, I very much appreciate your time. Well, I was glad to share with you. That’s exactly what we wanted to do. Okay. Appreciate it very much. Thank you so much, Bob.
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